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	<title>Comments on: Liturgical Leadership</title>
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		<title>By: edlizasacto</title>
		<link>http://nickwagner.net/ilm/liturgy-track-2008-2009/liturgical-leadership/comment-page-1/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>edlizasacto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 01:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickwagner.net/?page_id=7#comment-12</guid>
		<description>As mentioned in Alvaro&#039;s statement above I believe coordination was made with the Intercessary Prayer. I was the one who asked a member of the Word Team as if they desired the response to be sung. Within the Word team a sub-team was assigned to create the petitions and was directed towards them. Now if the coordination with the Movement or environment was not connected, that might be, however what was  the ideal goal. Participation! Just as in the first question in the Liturgy Evaluation ...Everyone sings the opening song....As a musician and on the Liturgy committe of my parish, the key element in participation is invitation. Before the mass starts, the Music Leader invites the congregation to sing and reminds them that their praises and joyful sounds are a communal prayer.  The song selection is always a familiar one. Not being wanting to be boastful, but as the entrance song is sung, when the last refrain is sung it is done accapello and that allows the congregation to really hear themselves singing and the sounds of confidence in prayer is exhibited.  Granted I too agree that not all the masses will be the same and consistency is hard to attain because I believe the congregation is varied by the mass schedule. People go to mass for either convience, music and priest presiders. That could be another subject to comment. Go to go now....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As mentioned in Alvaro&#8217;s statement above I believe coordination was made with the Intercessary Prayer. I was the one who asked a member of the Word Team as if they desired the response to be sung. Within the Word team a sub-team was assigned to create the petitions and was directed towards them. Now if the coordination with the Movement or environment was not connected, that might be, however what was  the ideal goal. Participation! Just as in the first question in the Liturgy Evaluation &#8230;Everyone sings the opening song&#8230;.As a musician and on the Liturgy committe of my parish, the key element in participation is invitation. Before the mass starts, the Music Leader invites the congregation to sing and reminds them that their praises and joyful sounds are a communal prayer.  The song selection is always a familiar one. Not being wanting to be boastful, but as the entrance song is sung, when the last refrain is sung it is done accapello and that allows the congregation to really hear themselves singing and the sounds of confidence in prayer is exhibited.  Granted I too agree that not all the masses will be the same and consistency is hard to attain because I believe the congregation is varied by the mass schedule. People go to mass for either convience, music and priest presiders. That could be another subject to comment. Go to go now&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Alvaro</title>
		<link>http://nickwagner.net/ilm/liturgy-track-2008-2009/liturgical-leadership/comment-page-1/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>Alvaro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 23:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickwagner.net/?page_id=7#comment-11</guid>
		<description>Hi everyone,

Here are some thoughts on the evaluation of liturgy assignment. Before using the form to evaluate the liturgy at my parish, I thought Iâ€™d ask myself (as a member of the liturgical assembly) those same questions. Well, I wonâ€™t tell you what my score was, but this preliminary exercise helped me realize where I stand on those points.
During last weekâ€™s 15-minute liturgy planning experience, I learned that while leading the prayer of the faithful, our decision to sing the response was not communicated to the assembly beforehand; therefore, participation was affected. We thought I would be â€œniceâ€ if we used a sung response instead of the usual â€œLord, hear our prayerâ€, but failed to prepare the assembly for that. The most difficult point in the evaluation, though, I found to be the last: How is my life, and as a result that of those around me, changed because I celebrate Mass every Sunday? I suppose that none of the other aspects of the evaluation matter much if the effects of the liturgy are not becoming evident.
After the parish evaluation (as to full, conscious and active participation), we barely escaped having the liturgy police pay us a visit. Although, I have to admit that it was more like taking the temperature rather than an evaluation. For one thing, only one of our four Masses was evaluated, and the responses were based on a one-time observation (I really havenâ€™t been participating in the liturgy having these points in mind). I commented on evaluation point number 6 in the last paragraph. What I did find difficult as a point of evaluation is number 4: The community understands and is engaged in praying the Eucharistic prayer. I can see how participation can be evident: responses, gesture, etc. (or, the lack of participation: people talking, yawning and distracted, reading the bulletin, etc.). But, how is the understanding of the Eucharistic prayer to be evaluated? What are your thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi everyone,</p>
<p>Here are some thoughts on the evaluation of liturgy assignment. Before using the form to evaluate the liturgy at my parish, I thought Iâ€™d ask myself (as a member of the liturgical assembly) those same questions. Well, I wonâ€™t tell you what my score was, but this preliminary exercise helped me realize where I stand on those points.<br />
During last weekâ€™s 15-minute liturgy planning experience, I learned that while leading the prayer of the faithful, our decision to sing the response was not communicated to the assembly beforehand; therefore, participation was affected. We thought I would be â€œniceâ€ if we used a sung response instead of the usual â€œLord, hear our prayerâ€, but failed to prepare the assembly for that. The most difficult point in the evaluation, though, I found to be the last: How is my life, and as a result that of those around me, changed because I celebrate Mass every Sunday? I suppose that none of the other aspects of the evaluation matter much if the effects of the liturgy are not becoming evident.<br />
After the parish evaluation (as to full, conscious and active participation), we barely escaped having the liturgy police pay us a visit. Although, I have to admit that it was more like taking the temperature rather than an evaluation. For one thing, only one of our four Masses was evaluated, and the responses were based on a one-time observation (I really havenâ€™t been participating in the liturgy having these points in mind). I commented on evaluation point number 6 in the last paragraph. What I did find difficult as a point of evaluation is number 4: The community understands and is engaged in praying the Eucharistic prayer. I can see how participation can be evident: responses, gesture, etc. (or, the lack of participation: people talking, yawning and distracted, reading the bulletin, etc.). But, how is the understanding of the Eucharistic prayer to be evaluated? What are your thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Alvaro</title>
		<link>http://nickwagner.net/ilm/liturgy-track-2008-2009/liturgical-leadership/comment-page-1/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Alvaro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 23:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickwagner.net/?page_id=7#comment-10</guid>
		<description>Hi everyone,

Here&#039;s a first attempt at trying to put into practice the principles we discussed during our last session.

Thanks to Ed and Thao for taking the lead in posting comments. Their initiative helped me realize that this forum will be an important part of our formation, as it will facilitate the flow of ideas, which, hopefully, will help clarify and/or supplement the class discussions and reading assignments.

On first reading the quote excerpted from Chapter Five of A. Kavanagh&#039;s book, I found the language to describe good liturgy a bit difficult to accept: &quot;good liturgy borders on the vulgar... leads regularly to the edge of chaos... from this regular flirt with doom comes a theology different from any other.&quot; On further reflection, I think it is precisely because ritual that makes for good liturgy must be designed with the every person in mind, that the beauty to be found in its simplicity might be construed as bordering on the &quot;common&quot;. Because liturgy is, I believe, inherently an expression of awe, and because the Word proclaimed in it has the power to challenge the participants&#039; view of the world (to the point of primal disorder, so that they can be created anew) that such language as chaos and doom are used in this description of liturgy.

So in posting my thoughts, I recognize that I am taking a risk. A risk that my understanding of the material might be so wrong as to sound absurd; but, how else would I be able to invite your comments so that I may learn from and be open to your ideas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi everyone,</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a first attempt at trying to put into practice the principles we discussed during our last session.</p>
<p>Thanks to Ed and Thao for taking the lead in posting comments. Their initiative helped me realize that this forum will be an important part of our formation, as it will facilitate the flow of ideas, which, hopefully, will help clarify and/or supplement the class discussions and reading assignments.</p>
<p>On first reading the quote excerpted from Chapter Five of A. Kavanagh&#8217;s book, I found the language to describe good liturgy a bit difficult to accept: &#8220;good liturgy borders on the vulgar&#8230; leads regularly to the edge of chaos&#8230; from this regular flirt with doom comes a theology different from any other.&#8221; On further reflection, I think it is precisely because ritual that makes for good liturgy must be designed with the every person in mind, that the beauty to be found in its simplicity might be construed as bordering on the &#8220;common&#8221;. Because liturgy is, I believe, inherently an expression of awe, and because the Word proclaimed in it has the power to challenge the participants&#8217; view of the world (to the point of primal disorder, so that they can be created anew) that such language as chaos and doom are used in this description of liturgy.</p>
<p>So in posting my thoughts, I recognize that I am taking a risk. A risk that my understanding of the material might be so wrong as to sound absurd; but, how else would I be able to invite your comments so that I may learn from and be open to your ideas?</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://nickwagner.net/ilm/liturgy-track-2008-2009/liturgical-leadership/comment-page-1/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 00:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickwagner.net/?page_id=7#comment-9</guid>
		<description>Hi Thao,

I&#039;m so glad you said that lay people play a major role in getting whole community involved in the liturgy. When we place the total burden of that job on the priests, their job is much harder. I&#039;m glad you took the time to share your thoughts!

Nick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Thao,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m so glad you said that lay people play a major role in getting whole community involved in the liturgy. When we place the total burden of that job on the priests, their job is much harder. I&#8217;m glad you took the time to share your thoughts!</p>
<p>Nick</p>
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		<title>By: Thao</title>
		<link>http://nickwagner.net/ilm/liturgy-track-2008-2009/liturgical-leadership/comment-page-1/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Thao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickwagner.net/?page_id=7#comment-8</guid>
		<description>Nick,
As you know, this is my 3rd year at ILM. In the class you said &quot;I am not a teacher&quot;, however the way you made all class participate righ on the 1st night, it was interesting to me about your teaching skills.
Well! Liturgy is a &quot;term&quot; I heard a lot in the Church&#039;s environment and most likely fall into the&quot;priest activities&quot; that what I understood.
Then in the 1st class, I learned that a lay person likes me can play a major role to make local community participated  in whole as Church&#039;s body by what I lspiritual learned from ILM. The main thing is to follow the guiding of Holy Spirit, and at first from the heart of  one of us as God call us in this class,and in our time.
Thao</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick,<br />
As you know, this is my 3rd year at ILM. In the class you said &#8220;I am not a teacher&#8221;, however the way you made all class participate righ on the 1st night, it was interesting to me about your teaching skills.<br />
Well! Liturgy is a &#8220;term&#8221; I heard a lot in the Church&#8217;s environment and most likely fall into the&#8221;priest activities&#8221; that what I understood.<br />
Then in the 1st class, I learned that a lay person likes me can play a major role to make local community participated  in whole as Church&#8217;s body by what I lspiritual learned from ILM. The main thing is to follow the guiding of Holy Spirit, and at first from the heart of  one of us as God call us in this class,and in our time.<br />
Thao</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://nickwagner.net/ilm/liturgy-track-2008-2009/liturgical-leadership/comment-page-1/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickwagner.net/?page_id=7#comment-7</guid>
		<description>Hi Ed,

The handout for evaluating liturgy is for you to use to get a sense of how well you think your parish is doing. I hope some of the class participants will post some of their thoughts about their parish liturgy here on the Web site. We are not going to be discussing the handout in class, however. 

Thanks.

Nick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ed,</p>
<p>The handout for evaluating liturgy is for you to use to get a sense of how well you think your parish is doing. I hope some of the class participants will post some of their thoughts about their parish liturgy here on the Web site. We are not going to be discussing the handout in class, however. </p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Nick</p>
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		<title>By: edlizasacto</title>
		<link>http://nickwagner.net/ilm/liturgy-track-2008-2009/liturgical-leadership/comment-page-1/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>edlizasacto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickwagner.net/?page_id=7#comment-6</guid>
		<description>Thanks for a great class. I enjoyed the preparation of the Liturgy. I wish our Liturgy meetings would be that collaborative and quickly resolved as timely as we did. But of course there are varibles in which I hope to learn in class and being open with that risk we talked about. 
 By the way I take it that the handout on evaluating our Parish Liturgy was for this weekend masses and have it read y by the next class. Is that righ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for a great class. I enjoyed the preparation of the Liturgy. I wish our Liturgy meetings would be that collaborative and quickly resolved as timely as we did. But of course there are varibles in which I hope to learn in class and being open with that risk we talked about.<br />
 By the way I take it that the handout on evaluating our Parish Liturgy was for this weekend masses and have it read y by the next class. Is that righ?</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://nickwagner.net/ilm/liturgy-track-2008-2009/liturgical-leadership/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickwagner.net/?page_id=7#comment-5</guid>
		<description>Hi everyone. Thanks for a great class last night. I wrote down the commitments we made to leadership in the learning environment, and I grouped them under the five categories of leadership proposed by Kouzes and Posner.

Did I miss any? Are there any we should add? Are there any that need to be expanded on or explained?

You have to be logged in to comment. Click on the login link at the very bottom of the page. Your user name is your first name, and I e-mailed you the password.

&lt;div style=&quot;width:477px;text-align:left&quot; id=&quot;__ss_605144&quot;&gt;&lt;a style=&quot;font:14px Helvetica,Arial,Sans-serif;display:block;margin:12px 0 3px 0;text-decoration:underline;&quot; href=&quot;http://www.slideshare.net/TeamRCIA/commitments-to-leadership-in-the-learning-environment-presentation?type=document&quot; title=&quot;Commitments To Leadership In The Learning Environment&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Commitments To Leadership In The Learning Environment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;object style=&quot;margin:0px&quot; width=&quot;477&quot; height=&quot;510&quot;&gt;&lt;param name=&quot;movie&quot; value=&quot;http://static.slideshare.net/swf/ssplayerd.swf?doc=commitments-to-leadership-in-the-learning-environment-1221753763696223-9&amp;stripped_title=commitments-to-leadership-in-the-learning-environment-presentation&quot; /&gt;&lt;param name=&quot;allowFullScreen&quot; value=&quot;true&quot;/&gt;&lt;param name=&quot;allowScriptAccess&quot; value=&quot;always&quot;/&gt;&lt;embed src=&quot;http://static.slideshare.net/swf/ssplayerd.swf?doc=commitments-to-leadership-in-the-learning-environment-1221753763696223-9&amp;stripped_title=commitments-to-leadership-in-the-learning-environment-presentation&quot; type=&quot;application/x-shockwave-flash&quot; allowscriptaccess=&quot;always&quot; allowfullscreen=&quot;true&quot; width=&quot;477&quot; height=&quot;510&quot;&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;font-size:11px;font-family:tahoma,arial;height:26px;padding-top:2px;&quot;&gt;View SlideShare &lt;a style=&quot;text-decoration:underline;&quot; href=&quot;http://www.slideshare.net/TeamRCIA/commitments-to-leadership-in-the-learning-environment-presentation?type=document&quot; title=&quot;View Commitments To Leadership In The Learning Environment on SlideShare&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;document&lt;/a&gt; or &lt;a style=&quot;text-decoration:underline;&quot; href=&quot;http://www.slideshare.net/upload?type=document&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Upload&lt;/a&gt; your own.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi everyone. Thanks for a great class last night. I wrote down the commitments we made to leadership in the learning environment, and I grouped them under the five categories of leadership proposed by Kouzes and Posner.</p>
<p>Did I miss any? Are there any we should add? Are there any that need to be expanded on or explained?</p>
<p>You have to be logged in to comment. Click on the login link at the very bottom of the page. Your user name is your first name, and I e-mailed you the password.</p>
<div style="width:477px;text-align:left" id="__ss_605144"><a style="font:14px Helvetica,Arial,Sans-serif;display:block;margin:12px 0 3px 0;text-decoration:underline;" href="http://www.slideshare.net/TeamRCIA/commitments-to-leadership-in-the-learning-environment-presentation?type=document" title="Commitments To Leadership In The Learning Environment" rel="nofollow">Commitments To Leadership In The Learning Environment</a><object style="margin:0px" width="477" height="510"><param name="movie" value="http://static.slideshare.net/swf/ssplayerd.swf?doc=commitments-to-leadership-in-the-learning-environment-1221753763696223-9&#038;stripped_title=commitments-to-leadership-in-the-learning-environment-presentation" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"/><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"/><embed src="http://static.slideshare.net/swf/ssplayerd.swf?doc=commitments-to-leadership-in-the-learning-environment-1221753763696223-9&#038;stripped_title=commitments-to-leadership-in-the-learning-environment-presentation" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="477" height="510"></embed></object>
<div style="font-size:11px;font-family:tahoma,arial;height:26px;padding-top:2px;">View SlideShare <a style="text-decoration:underline;" href="http://www.slideshare.net/TeamRCIA/commitments-to-leadership-in-the-learning-environment-presentation?type=document" title="View Commitments To Leadership In The Learning Environment on SlideShare" rel="nofollow">document</a> or <a style="text-decoration:underline;" href="http://www.slideshare.net/upload?type=document" rel="nofollow">Upload</a> your own.</div>
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